Naturist Police

Dear All

I hope you are all well and enjoying whatever is left of our Great British summer!!

I just wish to send you this short message to sound out your views on something that has been discussed for quite a long time in our household and seems to be taking momentum in the emails and various social site discussions.

As you all know, my partner is more experienced than me and whatever I do, he also has to agree with. This works for me because it prevents me from doing silly things most of the time.  This includes not getting involved in some activities that I’ve been invited to participate in that would have brought me into arguments that I have very little experience of.

I have also turned down the offer of appearing in certain magazines that might have focused too much on my body rather than my brain.

I am obviously passionate about promoting naturism but it does get very difficult at times when people use arguments based on illegal/sexual activities carried out by so called naturists.

Naturists are obviously no different than any other group of people, you are going to get all mixture of characters, the good, bad and the ugly.  However when the same happens in other social groups they perhaps are not tarred with a general image as much as naturists seems to be.  For example, when a few teachers, priests are found to be sexually offending the children in their care, not all the teachers are banned from teaching and there has been no movement to close particular school or church because some crimes have been committed there.  So… this brings me to the point of naturists beaches and other recreational areas used by the naturists.. if these areas are used by one or two perverts to conduct some illegal/sexual activities then the place where the crimes are conducted should not be made to close denying pleasure to all other law abiding users.

This makes me reluctant to spend time and effort in campaigning for more and better facilities because the same may occur there.  I have a strong wish to encourage people to use public spaces, like parks etc, in the same way they are used in some countries in Europe.  In that, if a girl wants to sunbathe topless, she just goes ahead and does it and she is not pestered or abused by passer byes, the same should be the case if the females or men wish to go fully nude, as long as there is no obvious sexual intent, there should be no hesitation in people doing what they feel is natural.  Obviously it is not for everyone and you cannot put the rights of naturists ahead of the rights of non naturists but a common sense approach should be acceptable.

What I mean by that is that, if you take Regents Park in London, I have sunbathed nude in the Rose Garden in the past, but I will not walk into the nearby cafe area in the nude as that would upset the non naturists with children and they may also not wish to see a nude person whilst eating etc.

In order to arrive at this ‘happy place’ the general public who wish to be more liberated and are not necessarily members of any naturist club, need to be assured that this is within the current legal limits and the ‘perverts’ will be managed.

In my view, the illegal and perverted activities will cause more problems if only specific area is nominated as ‘nude’ area.  This would become the ‘target’ for the perverts in the similar way the nude beaches are.

Whilst this may be a problem in public nude areas, it is obviously not a problem at naturist membership controlled clubs where rules are obeyed by the members or they are dealt with by the club authorities.  The ‘serious’ naturists tend to seek the freedom of naturists clubs through the protection they offer, however this doesn’t protect them from being related to the pervert naturists who do nothing but harm naturism.   The perverts and law breaking nudists may also call themselves naturists to avoid detection or prosecution this is made easier for them when they can use ‘authorised’ public areas.

OK.. Now to come to the main point, I could go on and use various examples to support my suggestion but it might not be needed if I can use maybe just one example.

In the same way we have the law enforcement wherever there is a need; we should address this situation and establish a method of resolving the problem.

We cannot depend on the Police to be there on the beaches and parks all the time to protect the small number of naturists that use the facilities.  This is never going to happen. However in order to enforce the law, there needs to be some method that is able to detect and deal with the crimes in much shorter time than it would take to call the local police and for them to attend a low level incident such as a man misbehaving at a nudist beach.

In the same way as most of you naturists and naturist organisation fight for the rights of the naturists to be given these places, YOU also have to fight to keep them and manage them so that those who come to use the ‘authorised’ places are not subjected to what is clearly illegal or at least against the ‘Terms and Conditions’ for use of the facilities.

How do we do this.. an idea being discussed is to create a volunteer naturist special police constables.   Most of you probably think it cannot be done, too complicated, too expensive not enough support, that is to be expected. My view is that unless you debate an idea, there is no chance of anything being done.

We  have a reasonably clear idea of how this could work at the national level. This requires a proposal and people to then debate on it.  It is little too much for me and not enough time today to do.  A rough idea is that the national naturist organisations discuss this problem with the Police and obtain an agreement to train more of the special volunteer constables but specifically for nudist areas.  These would be volunteers who are against the name of naturism being used by perverts to damage their reputation and wish to see a law abiding naturist place used by everyone who is entitled to be there. This would be another version of the police force in order not to mix them up with the current specials as described here;

http://www.metpolicecareers.co.uk/specials/volunteering.html

The naturist special police could be managed through the national organisation (current or new), that simply co-ordinates the availability/attendance of the volunteers at trouble spots during most of the time that people use it.  This should not be too difficult if the volunteers are made up from people who would normally be there anyway. A web database application could quite easily manage this activity without too much manual intervention.

Their duty would be similar to the existing special constables, in that they deal with the situation in the first instance, collect evidence, through photography or statements and if arrest is required, they call the local police.

The ‘equipment’ doesn’t need to be any more than a hat, vest, phone and camera.  This could be funded quite easily through membership revenue or donations.

If the police do not take up this idea, the national naturist organisations perhaps could take it up as a ‘self’ policing activity.

I would like to invite your views and try to understand what you are willing to do to remove this nasty image of naturism that is preventing the naturists from being respected as law abiding citizens and gaining better facilities for the future.

Please comment here or email me at Ladygod1va@hotmail.co.uk or you can discuss on twitter @Ladygod1va .  Thank you.

45 Responses to “Naturist Police”

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  3. thomasberns Says:

    Unfortunately it will take a lot of education to get rid of the nudity = sexuality = perversion = pedophiles, etc etc etc mentality that is pervasive in our society. That is why it is so important for organized groups to unite and stand tall to try to spread the true word of naturism. It may take a few more generations to get there, but eventually we can!
    Great Post.

  4. Ardor Says:

    I think a welcoming and social committee would be far more effective than a naturist police force.

    The type of people who would be interested in illegal activities, be it pedophiles or something much less serious like exhibitionists, would be frightened off by being included in a social circle.

    If you see someone new on a beach or a nude safe area go introduce yourself and make friends with them. This would not only be an opportunity to make new friends, remind new comers of any rules but also strengthen the naturist community in your area.

    Someone who’s nervous and new to naturism might not come back if they see a bunch of people looking all squinty eyed and suspicious at them. Especially if they had a camera.

    If they were greeted by a friendly bunch of people who welcomed them into the area. If they helped them feel safe and secure you would start to build a community. “Perverts,” as you call them don’t like that kind of thing and would be frightened off.

    It also helps make naturism look friendly and approachable.

  5. Brian Powell Says:

    There is part of the human brain that is used to work out the feelings of others to help us interact socially. This area is said to contain mirror neurons. We feel what others are feeling them when we observe them. Yes people do get thrilled by watching or being watched by others engaging in sex. This is normal. To label people perverts for doing what you do not agree with is 10 bridges too far. Human sexuality is normal over a very wide spectrum and why all the fear?

  6. Dr Glenn Says:

    I think you need to question your use of terms such as “pervert” and your under-analysed and prejudicial use of the term. Also, take a look at the long history of naturism and examples of a positive relationship to eroticism and sex that came before the sterile modern version of naturism that you promote,and which makes no reference to naturisms’ historical relationship to sexuality; and I would suggest you also avoid the use of the word “group” to describe naturists, since this implies a “them and us” mentality, and that there is some essential definition of naturism/naturist – which there is not, it’s a social construction. The idea of a “naturist police” is not only sinister, especially coming from a person who says they are naturist, but a deeply worrying thought and completely the opposite of a culture of freedom, respect, balance and “live and let live” attitude that naturism is supposed to offer. Naturism is not simply about replicating the world’s values while simply being nude, it is much more than that. The asexual definition of naturism you aspire to is your version of what it is supposed to be and is already the dominant view of many naturists and naturist organisations, but not only is this asexual view dishonest (since people’s feelings are fluid, not static), it is prejudiced towards those people who find naturism erotic. The point is really not how naturism can be policed better to keep some “pure” and ahistorical definition of naturism going, but how those who find naturism erotic and those who don’t can co-exist on equal terms and with mutual respect. There is no integrity in gaining public acceptance by pretending that naturism is never erotic, by labelling those who find it erotic as “perverts,” and getting others to spy on people’s behaviour. I urge you to read our peer reviewed paper on the relationship between naturism and sexuality and sexual wellbeing. There is a lot there about the history of naturism and how its relationship to the erotic has been policed, and how that policing damages the integrity of naturism, makes people anxious, and defeats the ideals of freedom and respect that naturism has and should aspire to. The ESRC report is online, or you can get a copy from myself at: drglennsmith@btinternet.com

    • Sandy Beachcat (@SandyBeachcat) Says:

      The problems come from a lack of respect & balance amongst those who see nudity as sexual. They then assume everyone else does, & take it as a licence to pester others for sex, or engage in sexual acts in public areas.

    • Centauri4 Says:

      I disagree with most of Dr. Glenn’s reply because the cause of “mainstream” naturism as it exists today really has nothing to do with gaining a foothold on public beaches or lands for those who believe nudity is (or may also be) erotic. Far from denying the sexual side of our collective human nature, the naturism I practice is simply about being able to go clothing-free and not have this behavior be opposed by local ordinance, regulation or law.

      The practice of going nude is a privilege when done in the “public sphere” and does require a certain amount of decorum and restraint from its practitioners. We have already agreed to refrain from engaging in sexually-based behavior in order to win the favor of local authorities, family, friends and each other (fellow naturists) in many cases. As it is generally believed sexual activity is something which remains in the realm of “adult” behavior to which legal Minors and youth should not be exposed (whether the legal definition of “adult” is 18 years of age, 21 years of age, or – as on many websites – over the age of 13 in order to simply participate, is not important for this portion of the discussion).

      Most naturists I know agree certain behaviors should remain behind privacy fences or inside the walls of members only clubs, and this includes activities which would otherwise be illegal EVEN IF the person engaging inthem was fully clothed! So, in my thinking it is not a sexual-nudism versus non-sexual nudism issue at all, it is the desire of most naturists to be afforded a legal status equivalent to the traditional “newd is not lewd” saying in ANY ordinary situation.

      The same logic that requires people wishing to relieve themselves to go into a public toilet rather than using a storm drain along the side of the motorway applies. Lavatory behavior is not simply a sanitary issue, but a waste management issue and behavior requirement we all would rather not see “relaxed”.

      Naturism is not a philosophy of “total” live and let live, but rather a partial advancement of the philosophy of “body acceptance” and a new understanding counter to the old “the clothes make the man” ideology.

      I hope I have stated my opposition clearly and politely.

      Very best wishes!

  7. paul hurley Says:

    hi all,

    i agree with brien talor, there should be safty in numbers
    in countries like germany for instance it is quitr the norm to have
    nude complexes and gartherings ect. we shouldhve parks and
    open nudity practiced
    everybody sh enjoy the privilage to be free of clothes.
    so get yoursilves bare and be free

  8. s1ndydoll Says:

    Cheers LadyGod1va – I don’t know what I said for you to follow me on twitter, but high-five to you.
    You want ladeeeeez opinions? Well, whilst I totally love a good skinny-dip in an appropriate spot, or at night, or in a secluded bay…most liberating – & whilst I applaud your stance, I don’t really understand the whole ‘naturist’ thing – the desire to gather with other people in a premeditated fashion, to get your kits off.
    Love a nudey swim – & highly recommend the experience to everyone – don’t have any inclination to wander around the village shops in the nude though. Why would I?
    Nudity is a private thing & to me it just doesn;t fit within the framework of a sprawling metrolpolis, ie nude sunbathing in city parks. Don’t get me wrong, you are free to express yourself, however nudity is going to attract a lot of ‘undesirable’ attention, for obvious reasons.
    Sure scandinavians for instance, might be more open re their bodies, & that is their culture, I don’t think they wield that overtly though, contrary to the salivating cliche. $
    I wonder if more repressed cultures are moved to statement nudity as a counter to the repression..??
    Nude beaches should surely have a self-protecting/policing vibe – I doubt whether anyone but the hardcore nutjob would have the guts to position themselves amongst a group of naked bodies & behave inappropriately.
    A mate of mine & I actually were in the position once of having a wierdo positioning his b*llocks & interest a little too close – we in turn gave him a verbal b*llocking & made sure everyone knew where he was!

    • ladygod1va Says:

      Hi S1ndydoll – Thanks for the comments, it is good to hear honest comments from another female. Most of what you say above is true. I might be able to explain some things little further about naturism, in that there is no requirement for any naturist to be part of a group, however groups are popular mainly for 2 reasons, 1 is that nudity is only allowed at nominated sites, so an obvious place to group, the 2nd reason is the general human need to seek others to share the same interest. For example, whilst a nude swim by yourself would be great, imagine how much better it would be if you could share the experience with someone you love or family/friends. It is too cold now for beach swims, perhaps you’d like to try out a nude pool swim sometime?

      • Brian Taylor - British Naturism Says:

        The statement “nudity is only allowed at nominated sites” is not strictly accurate as there are no laws, apart from occasional local bylaws, that forbid simple nudity anywhere. Of course Lady G might not be referring to the law here, but rather the question of social acceptability – you are hardly likely to get away with nudity in Tesco’s even though strictly it would not be illegal. However, you might be charged with “Outraging Public Decency” – we would consider this to be an inappropriate use of this law and past cases have been dismissed.

        Another reason for gathering in groups is “safety in numbers”. A lone naked rambler might be treated with suspicion, but a group of naked ramblers not so.

      • s1ndydoll Says:

        ha haa Brian – you’ve got my sleepdeprived Saturday morning brain awash with tesco/nudity scenarios now.. hmm, dare I try it..?

        & Lady G?? Never too late for a sea swim – race ya to South Devon!!
        think just how exhilarating it would be after all that exertion 🙂

  9. paul hurley Says:

    hi ladygod1va,
    i have only last night wrote in response to nervous naturist,
    i did not realise it was almost a year old.my apoligies.
    i do not think there shouid be a need for anaturist police force,
    on the grounds it would be to much hasle and bring further unwelcome attention from the nonnaturist community.it is only my opinion of coarse.
    i have just been whatching your video in trafalger square.very good.
    i can not wait to whatch it again.just what we need in britain a good
    clear voice to make nudity more understood.
    i would like to see something of a similar thing organised for next year
    in regard to publice parks
    i will have to read more of your ideas as i am in full agreement with
    on the naked body being pure and natural
    your agraet asset to naturism.

    well i will finish here exept keep up the good work and to quote
    someother e mail; KEEP BARE GOOD GIRL

  10. ladygod1va Says:

    Hi, I am back now and catching up with work. I’d like to progress this discussion further so that we can maybe see if something can be organised before the next summer.

    I think maybe organising local beach guardians, authorised by BN and notified to the police might be a good way forward. What I see as my contribution could be to organise/deliver a web based method of co-ordinating and administrating this process.

    Does anyone have any other ideas? is BN likely to be interested in leading on this?

    • Malcolm Boura, British Naturism Says:

      An excellent idea but we are ahead of you ;-). Nice feeling that!

      Beach groups has been on the agenda for some time. It was largely a question of finding cooperative police and volunteers in the same location. The cooperation of the police is essential. They take a very dim view of even a hint of vigilantism and it would not be fair to put volunteers into potentially difficult situations without being confident that the police will back them.

      There was a meeting earlier this week with the police for a beach down in the SW. It was very positive with a lot of enthusiasm from the police and of course BN. The first beach walk will take place in the next few days.

      The timing is quite good. We can get a bit of practical experience in what is left of the beach weather this year and then we have a few months to sort out any problems that may arise. Once that is done then I am keen that we should role it out across all of the beaches commonly used by naturists. The critical thing will be finding volunteers. It needs a team for each beach. This is not something that should be done as an individual.

      I won’t say any more at present because this activity is being lead by Judith Stinchcombe and she will arrange for the formal announcement in due course.

      • Malcolm Boura, British Naturism Says:

        And of course once we have got a scheme up and running, and hopefully successful, with one police force then getting other on board becomes a lot easier.

      • ladygod1va Says:

        Excellent news.. good to see something developing, obviously the success will depend on the effectiveness of the group. I’m sure you have it covered but it is quite likely that some in the group may not have BN membership but they will still need some sort of vetting.

        I assume there is a Terms of Reference being agreed with the Police.
        To have a peaceful beach you may need to look at restricting the use of small boats, photography etc within the beach by-laws.

  11. ladygod1va Says:

    I am assuming that this message will get to those who have been involved in the discussions above.

    I regret to say that at present I am in Goa due to a young friend and work colleague passing away under tragic circumstances.

    Having to deal with this situation is not allowing me to switch my time or emotions. So please continue this discussion as you wish, I am sure there is a way forward somewhere.

  12. FBANAVic » Blog Archive » Naturist police?? Says:

    […] awesome summer, always vocal LadyGod1va wrote a long and detailed post about the notion of “Naturist police”. Definitely read the entire post, it is worth it. Here are a few snippets to give you a […]

  13. Dan Speers Says:

    I can give my perspective here the US. The Naturist Society and Naturist Action Committee encourage local beach users to create a “Friends Of” group that does does more than just self-policing, but to create a relationship with the local authorities, interact with the media and where appropriate the local community.

    In my area we have Gunnison Beach in New Jeresey, and from my days in Tri-State Metro Naturists we would be on the beach every weekend handing out literature that included a page on “Free Beach Etiquette.” It was basically a list of what we felt were the guidelines that people should follow while on the beach. This included “No Overt Sexual Activity” and “Speak up for Standards” to help encourage more self-policing.

    http://www.bayareanaturists.org/etiq.html

    Having a local group that is also familiar with local laws and building a good working relationship with the area authorities helps quite a bit. We would share with them what we considered our standards to be and promised to report any inappropriate behavior to them. At Gunnison beach this developed in to a very good working relationship. The park service added more services to the beach, lifeguards, better shower areas and a paved parking lot. Groups like TSMN and Friends of Gunnison raised funds for signage and to build a walkway out to the beach.

    So to sum up, local groups here can be more effective than a single national group that tries to run it all. Instead TNS & NAC provide more guidance and are prepared to bring more to the table when major problems arise; threats to nude use and that kind of thing.

    Dan

  14. Steve Doerr Says:

    A great discussion going on. I’m a bit sceptical about the ability to recruit and maintain a naturist police force, but I don’t want to come in with a ‘can’t do’ attitude. I think a number of beaches in the US have a ‘beach mayor’, not officially recognized by authorities, and not elected by users, but generally respected by the beach users, who will have a quiet word with anyone who is misbehaving. I agree that we should not demonize homosexuals as such – theirs is a community which happens to be more open to naturism than the rest of us – which is surely our problem not theirs! I’m afraid there are a lot of prejudices in naturism, and one of these is the anti-club prejudice of many freerange naturists: my club gives me the opportunity to do the two main things I would do on a naturist beach (sunbathe and swim) but also gives me: somewhere to take a pee other than in the sea, somewhere to have a crap, a shower to use when I’ve finished swimming, somewhere to get a meal without having to get dressed, and even somewhere to get a drink to wash it down. Plus if it seems likely to be nice the following day, I don’t have to go home and come back again: I can stay over in my caravan and be back sunbathing first thing the following morning. I’m not sure what puts people off clubs, but if you think of it as a beach with extra facilities you’ll be about right. (OK, I know there are issues with singles prejudice, but perhaps we shouldn’t get into that discussion!)

  15. ladygod1va Says:

    Thank you for contributing to this discussion. I am just following the points being made and will respond as required to further this discussion.
    My main wish is for something to be done. Whether it’s positive publicity or Positive Policing all will be worth doing if it brings better attitudes towards naturists.
    I do feel though that some people may not have experienced some events that go on. For example, during my last visit to Studlands, a man sat no more than 3 steps away from me & started to masturbate. That is NOT a naturist’s behaviour & will not be accepted by anyone.
    Whilst I am not alone, I don’t have any fear, but in order to make the general public accept nudity as normal, similar to the European beaches we have to address the bad behaviour of some.
    Saying this is mostly homosexuals problem or that the problem needs to be managed by the police is not addressing the issue. The police and local authorities will have no major concerns with closing more beaches and there would be little chance of getting permission for further places.
    This problem exists even in the most advanced naturist place I know, Cape D’Agde, where homosexuals have a piece of beach for themselves and ‘naughty’ naturists go alongside and behind into the dunes. This problem got so bad that the local police patrolled the area on horse back. For that area, naturism brings good revenue so they can afford the police, for the UK beaches, the local authorities get very little if any revenue from naturists visiting the beach.
    As for a specific nude sunbathing areas in London parks, I would say look at the current ones in Hampstead heath and how they are used.
    When I am in the Parks, I would not wish to walk to the other side of any park to a specific place and be allowed to go nude whilst pestered by similar incidents as above. If we say that the park authorities will not allow bad behaviour, I would say that, instead of spending resources on Policing such places, they will simply take the facility away.
    I know that there is a discussion going on regarding these places in London and I would very much like to see some progress and am willing to help if required. However I would warn against agreeing isolated areas as discussed above. I may be wrong, so I would not refuse such a place, as it might work for some. But speaking for myself, I already go nude almost wherever I like, being a girl I can get away with it more so than my male friends. So this is more about them and also to encourage more girls to enjoy the freedom of being nude as they already do when away on Holidays!
    More debate and information is required on this subject so I would encourage you all to continue with this discussion & when the time is right, maybe we can arrange a meeting of the interested parties.

  16. Roy Michael Blakely Says:

    I invite you to read my book called Gender Values. Among other subjects, it addresses everything for the promotion of nudist values.

    I am also on facebook…http://bit.ly/craveE

    I also have posted 7 notes on facebook regarding my value of the nudist lifestyle. If you don’t mind reading, I believe you’ll enjoy everything I have revealed of my own Heart-mind-soul on the matter. The subject of nudsim as it regards family-friendship-marriage-and faith in every regard, has my devoted interest..

    AGOPA,
    Roy Michael Blakely

  17. graham Says:

    Naturist have to comply with the law the same as everyone else has to so why do we need a special police force, this would be just about the worst thing for naturism the media would have a field day, i have long been in support of a naked sunbathing area in Londons Hyde Park which is so well policed if you as much as drop a piece of litter they are on you, vigilance is all that is needed coupled with todays technology, making naturism more open to everone is the way to promote it not by forming a naturist police force…

  18. Roy Says:

    I joined CCBN – as was – some 35 years ago in the hope that they would positively support naturism in the UK. They didn’t and so far as I can see still don’t do so. They belong to what Phil Vallack used to be call the ‘hide and chide’ brigade. Remember those words and who said them? No prizes!
    There are more clubs in the UK – at a price – but beaches have been lost rather than gained. It takes very few ‘perverts’ to get a beach a bad name and it may then be lost and certainly the attitude does not go towards getting more beaches ‘approved’.
    Studland did have a couple who use to patrol the beach – many years since I have been there – BUT the main objections are produced by – usually homosexual – activities in the sand dunes. I judge my numbers of various people by their behaviour and the way they approach others.
    BN needs to be less club orientated and more active in promoting nudity else where. I said that 35 years ago and it still holds true.
    BN’s failure to do just that caused me to leave many years ago.
    I do not believe that the great British public are particularly ‘anti nudity’ it is the behaviour that goes with it in – possibly a few- cases that positively repels them
    Roy.

    • Brian Taylor - British Naturism Says:

      Your impression of BN is sadly out of date. I am the Public Relations Officer and therefore a member of BN’s Executive Council and I’m not a member of any of the landed clubs to which you refer – so where do I hide? I have never been on a naturist holiday abroad, so I am very keen to promote ‘free range’ naturism in this country.

      You mention Studland. BN have worked and continue to work with the local police and the National Trust and there are now regular warden patrols there and arrests are made, with the consequence that the problem is very much reduced at that beach.

      We have built good relationships with the police at most of the official beaches and some of the unofficial ones. But, like Lady God1va, we would like to see complete freedom for nudity in any reasonable location, e.g. city parks as in Germany. We have been instrumental in extracting a statement from Waveney District Council and the police that naturism is now legal on ALL beaches in the Waveney district following their repeal of old bylaws that forbade it. Of course this statement is true for all UK beaches, but the point is we got Waveney to admit it for their bit of the coastline.

      We are currently supporting the campaign to designate an area of Hampstead Heath, which is surely a step in the right direction even if it is still a ‘ghetto’. It certainly doesn’t amount to “Hide and chide”.

      Our sports officer walked Offa’s Dyke last year to raise money for charity and did most of it naked, with the company of other BN members for much of the route.

      You would have found me and several other BN members, including members of the EC at the London WNBR had you been there this year (were you?), handing out BN leaflets as well as taking part, of course.

      We are increasingly organising events in venues that are not normally naturist.

      We have successfully helped defend BN members when they have been wrongfully arrested for their naturism.

      I could go on (sorry LadyG, but it really riles me when someone trots out the old “BN is only about clubs” mantra.)

      What more do you want?

      Organisations can and do change, especially in 35 years!

      • sandy_beach_cat Says:

        Whilst I applaud BN’s efforts to make naturism more acceptable on beaches and similar places, Is there any chance they could extend their efforts to Scotland anytime soon? The only actual definite official beach is a privately owned one in the far North at Loth (Crakaig). there are two others that are sometimes refered to as official, at Stevensons point, & Cleat’s shore. At one the water quality would probably kill you & the other is so remote you need to mount a major expedition to find it! Aditionally, the police, rather than having a “good relationship” with naturists, seem convinvced that naturism is illegal, at least if anyone should happen to catch a glimpse of them (see lady G’s previous blog entry). So, how about addressing some issues outide the sunny south of Englandshire?

      • Brian Taylor - British Naturism Says:

        (Reply to sandy_beach_cat)
        Last year we did make a submission to a department of the Scottish government when the opportunity to do so arose:
        http://www.british-naturism.org.uk/mediacentre/files/submission_CYPSCD_TSG_0902.pdf
        However, we are an organisation run by volunteers and at the moment we have a chronic shortage of volunteers coming forward from Scotland to be involved. Scottish interests would be best served by someone from Scotland prepared to get to grips with the very real and significant differences in attitude of the Scottish legal system. This is no different from the rest of the country where we find that local knowledge is very important.

        We do what we can, but having volunteers from Scotland would make a huge difference. Anyone?

      • sandy_beach_cat Says:

        I’ll think about it. 🙂

      • Brian Taylor - British Naturism Says:

        Thanks ‘sandy_beach_cat’, you will find my contact details on the contacts page of the BN website (linked from my name above) if you want to get in touch more directly.

  19. Malcolm Boura, British Naturism Says:

    Forming groups to “police” the beaches is something that I have been trying to encourage since I was appointed RLO a few years ago but without much success. It must be done properly and to be effective it must be done regularly so it is not really something that individuals should take on. There are safety issues and the police take a very dim view of anybody who they think is muscling in on their law enforcement monopoly. As it happens it was Judith Stinchcombe who obtained the breakthrough. It was only a few weeks ago and there is a lot of detail to work out so nothing is being announced at present but hopefully next year one beach will have a police sanctioned BN presence. What is more, it is not one of the designated beaches.

    I don’t think a specialist special police force fits in with the way that the police operate but police (and beach owner) supported rangers (or some such term) are very much a possibility.

  20. All Nudist Says:

    he term ‘natiurist’ is thrown around all over the place, usually associated with pornography or bad bahaviour. If nudity is involved at all, the perp is labelled a ‘nudist’. Makes for titallating reading!

    I’m not so sure about asking national organisations to help in policing beaches and other public venues. Here in America that would be AANR and TNS. AANR has shown little interest in supporting public nudism, their interest lies TNS would be more likely but is perpetually cash-short and couldn’t possibly afford anything, even if they had an interest.

    Our local beach, Mazo Beach, is policed informally by members of Friends of Mazo Beach and Badger Naturists, plus by anyone who happens to be handy. Usually a good talking to is all it takes to bring someone back in line.

    The gay guys stay mainly on one part of the beach and do their stuff out of sight, but really ought to wait until they get home!

    Your plan could work perhaps in a situation where a strong organization could handle the logistics and legalities, a job that would require lawyers and God knows who else.

    It’s a good idea and you’re right, a dialog is needed to address this problem before it gets entirely out of hand. It’s not going to go away if we just ignore it!

    • Brian Taylor - British Naturism Says:

      “I’m not so sure about asking national organisations to help in policing beaches and other public venues. Here in America that would be AANR and TNS. AANR has shown little interest in supporting public nudism”

      But here in the UK, the equivalent, BN, is interested in supporting public nudism…

  21. mike Says:

    Interesting stuff. I have little experience of nude beaches in the UK but I can well imagine that they are as described here. In contrast, go to a nude beach in Europe and they are very cosmoploitan and relaxed places. Even better are the many clothes optional beaches, where nudes and non nudes mix freely. Ideally all beaches should be like this.

    Like LadyG says, people, within reason, should be free to sunbathe nude anywhere, and in recent years, I’ve been doing just that, either with friends (who stay dressed) or alone if I am out alone. I’ve done this on beaches in the UK and in Europe, and never had a complaint or sly comment.

    The key is to be discrete and obviously do not chose a packed out beach in the middle of a town.

    I have come to the conclusion now that I refuse to be pushed into a nudist ‘ghetto’ at the far end of a beach, or having to sit on the rocks whilst everyone else is on the sand.

    Only last week I was naked on a beach in Spain – nobody else was, though grls were topless. Nobody cared, in fact a girl came to ask to borrow my snorkelling gear. A school group of teenagers (German) arrived and set up close by (15 metres). Nobody complained, nobody laughed and pointed. Everyone just got on wiht their day.

    So I maintain that this is the best way forward, discrete nudity, do not allow yourself to be forced miles down the beach – try it – I bet if you do it correctly, nobody will mind.

  22. Colin Says:

    The seclusion of the nudist beaches adds to the problem. Because there are so few non nudists around and any response would be so slow in coming, the perverts feel they can get away with anything. They don’t expect nudists to voice any objections. I think it is partly because nudists are so wary of the police and have the preconception that the police don’t like us.
    I think we need to have a large number of nudists as specials, just so that they know that they have the authority to do something when they see any sexual behaviour. Not just when on patrol, but whenever off duty too. If the pervs don’t know which of the nudists on the beach might be a special constable, it would make them think twice.

  23. Rei Hibiki Says:

    I only have a few minutes to comment right now, but I will do my best.

    While this does seem like a good idea, another great nuisance is the bias of the media. All it will take is for one of these offenders to tell the newspapers s/he is a “naturist” and our collective name will be dragged through the mud once again.

  24. A Lee Says:

    I have to agree with every point here, these perverts are rampant around, and its quite a bias about why naturists beaches or places get closed down when something happens, yet schools or churches can still operate. The only problem, is bias. Naturists will always be labeled as such by many narrow minded individuals and they won’t pose any help and maybe a threat to the lifestyle, and we still have the battle of keeping the perverted parasites at bay. So this will need a lot of settling and compromise for this. If there is a way somehow to make and maintain that balance, all could be better…at least in theory.

  25. Brian Taylor - British Naturism Says:

    I agree with you, Ladygod1va, that we will only succeed in getting rid of the parasites in the short term by some system of self policing as it is unreasonable to expect the mainstream police to provide permanent patrols. The equipment of phone and camera is what I have always advocated. The idea of doing this as part of the official PCSO scheme is a good one and definitely worthy of investigation.

    Your examples for why closure of naturist beaches is wrong are very good and in any case, we know that closure doesn’t work – because it removes the very people who make life at all difficult for the perverts!

    Your longer term, dare I say Utopian, society is something that we dream about and will continue to strive for by taking every opportunity that we can to sort out the misunderstandings about naturism, promote the advantages of our lifestyle and generally try to push the boundary of public awareness and acceptance, such that we might get there some day. I have to say you are doing a grand job of helping this process – Thank you.

    Roy is also right, I’m sorry to say. I have noticed this trend myself over the 30+ years that I have been visiting naturist beaches.

  26. Curt virtual b Says:

    This really is a common world problem for naturists. We have one beach along the ocean that unofficially permits our full enjoyment, but it also attracts the curious and the perverted that pretend to fish or just stand/hide in the sea oats fully dressed and gaze. It would be nice to restrict the area to just the undressed, but unfortunately the US is moving in the opposite direction. Eventually all naturists will be forced to enjoy being nude only on secluded private propery with fences to protect them from the easily offended and politically connected self-righteous.
    Good luck to you across the pond. May the sun shine on all of you.

  27. Roy Says:

    Basically I agree with you BUT I have been a naturist for some 30+ years = never as a club member but as a free thinker(!). I have written in Sue Piper magazine on this subject many times so just a precis here.
    ‘Naturist’ beaches in the UK are few and far between and I have only visited those reasonably near. My general and on going opinion is that they are mainly the playgrounds of homosexuals and tend to be their places to ‘make friends’.
    I would suggest that at – for example St Osyth – some 905 of people there are male and homosexual. My wife did undress the first time we went there but soon got them back on and refused to do it again.
    Foreign nude beaches such as I have visited seem to be largely unisex and children are happy there as well An entierly different atmosphere to ‘our’ beaches.
    I shall stop there. I have expressed this opinion so often in print I get fed up with trying to not notice ‘our’ beaches problems. So I’ll shut up!
    Roy

    • ladygod1va Says:

      Hi Roy

      Thank you for your comments.

      I understand what you feel about the situation, however the decision has to be made either we address the issue or we let the few facilities slip away from use.

      The homosexual movement is now much stronger than naturists and it seems that homosexuals are considered more acceptable by the society than naturists because naturists are reluctant to announce themselves as such to the general public.

      I think we would be in a sorry state as a nation if we believe that there are more homosexual’s than nudists, I would count all girls who go topless on holidays and all men who go nude bathing in this.

      It would be easy for someone like me to give up on this and just use foreign resorts, however by doing so I would give up the opportunity to enjoy my skin in the sun for 50 weeks a year.

      I am not willing to do that, so for now I will continue to hope that there is a way to progress this situation and hope also that experienced people like yourself are willing to contribute to this effort.

      Regards

      Kiran

      • All Nudist Says:

        Regarding your remark that “homosexuals are considered more acceptable by the society than naturists”, you are so right. Here’s an article that delves into the subject in some depth:

        http://allnudist.wordpress.com/2010/08/27/nude-fruit/

        The problem is, gay guys are still guys and men are naturally promiscuous. Men have to work at it to bed a women but other men are easy! And so is the sex: quick, easy, and available.

        And Lady G, I know you must have looked up the profiles of some of your fans, and they can be pretty creepy sometimes. Some of these same folks are at the beach where they try to live out their fantasies, much to our dismay.

        If our local police spent a fraction of the time they spend patrolling public parks for pervs on beach patrol, the problem could be solved. We’ve got the pervs, come and get ’em!

    • Colin Says:

      Roy’s comment that 90% of people at nudist beaches are male and homosexual simply reenforces another of the major forms of prejudice against nudists.

      I agree that there are an increasing amount of homosexual men at nudist beaches. I don’t know about St Osyth, but they have a significant presence at Studland.

      I also agree that about 90% of people at nudist beaches are male. This may be because many nudist resorts are reluctant to allow single men, and so beaches are one of the few places available to them.

      I do not agree that 90% of the people are male AND homosexual.

      The trouble is that there are more nudist men in this country. Nudist men seen alone or with other men are immediately classed as homosexual. It may be that Roy’s comment was just badly worded, but it seems as though even nudists make this assumption. We need to stop people being so prejudiced if we are going to change the way people percieve nudists.

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